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All things were made by him; and without him was
not any thing made that was made.

John 1:3

By
Dennis Fischer

© 2012 Dennis Fischer ®
All rights reserved

Dear Friends,

In 2004 I completed a book entitled A Vision, A Plan, and A Destiny. Of every project I have ever undertaken this is, by far, the most special. The book is a story about God’s plan for mankind and how the forces of evil attempt to thwart it. It then explains how God overcomes these forces to insure that His plan would be accomplished and that our destiny would be achieved. The book has received numerous comments from guests and the overwhelming majority of them have been hugely positive. One reader posted the following a couple of years ago:

“I read this book several months ago, and really enjoyed it. I think it should be required reading for all professing Christians. Today, I was recalling how much I appreciated the Appendix offered in this book, and did a short review.

This feature is priceless! All four topics offer a very sound explanation and synopsis of their theme. It makes for an excellent study and teaching tool, an easy to follow and understand guide on each subject.

Do yourself a favor, and take the time to investigate this outstanding material. You will be glad you did!”

However, at some later point, this same person apparently had a complete change of heart and wrote this:

“If you can swallow the idea that Angels are billions of years old, that Satan had a temper tantrum and destroyed the earth millions of years before the Creation Week, this book may be for you. Read "A Vision A Plan and A Destiny" and you will get the idea.

I can't believe I ever said anything positive about it.

He then called it “a work of fiction”

In the course of an Email exchange this man argued that there isn’t a shred of evidence in the scriptures that even hints that angels existed prior to the six days of creation described in Genesis 1. Here is how he put it.

“Yes, I know the Sons of God jumped for joy when God laid the cornerstone of the Earth (Job 38:6-7). This only proves the Angels were here during the Creation Week. It does not prove they were here earlier, and certainly does not prove they are billions of years old.”

At this point a second gentleman offered his support of the belief that everything that exists came into being concurrently with the material universe. According to him there are absolutely NO EXCEPTIONS. In other words he contends that virtually EVERYTHING regardless of where—was created within the past 6000 years, roughly. He even asserts that anyone who dares to believe otherwise is simply speaking foolishness and is actually blatantly contradicting what God’s word clearly states. Here is how he expressed his view:

“In my almost 30 years connected with God's Church, it seems much more often than not, that leading men are too willing to offer up whatever answer to 'THEM' sounds like it's simply "good enough." Maybe a little self-or otherwise constructive criticism is in order, before we continue to speak as fools according to our own folly?

Why is it we so quickly allow ourselves to contradict God's very own words when he says he made "ALL" that is in 6 days and rested.”

This now brings us to the question of the day:

Although these well intended men may believe otherwise, I am absolutely convinced that there exists compelling evidence directly from God’s word, declaring that the spirit realm (including the angels) existed long before the material universe we see around us.

My purpose is to present that evidence.

With that said, it is important to understand that when doing so it is not my intent to malign those who hold a different view. Rather, my purpose is to add insight to this issue and to explain why I believe as I do. And contrary to what some might believe I am fully persuaded that my position on this issue comports perfectly with the scriptures.

The Format

For the sake of clarity I have arranged my position in the form of exhibits—actually 4 exhibits—the way you might see them presented in a court of law. And in consideration of this approach I would like you (my reader) to assume the role of jurors in the court. As a matter of fact, I would like to address you as just that. And in your capacity as jurors your duty will be to render your decision based on the evidence at hand. With that said, let the case begin.

Respectfully,

Dennis Fischer

Exhibit I

“The Evidence of Creation”

Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, the story of creation recorded in Genesis 1 is very telling with respect to this issue—not only because of what it says—but also because of what it doesn’t say. To illustrate this point we are going to read the entire chapter—and when doing so I intend to offer some personal observations concerning what is taking place in this creation narrative.

Genesis 1:1-31

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

At this point I would like to make my first observation:

Ladies and gentlemen, I believe it is at some point after this that God begins 6 literal days fashioning the material universe as we know it today. I also believe that when doing so each of these 6 literal days BEGINS with the same words—“And God said.” The point I am making is that, I am fully persuaded that everything recorded prior to the words, “And God ‘said,” occurred prior to the particular day being described This being the case, everything mentioned in verses 1 and 2 had already taken place before the first day commenced. In other words, the six days of creation began in verse three—NOT verse one.

I realize I will have to prove it. And ladies and gentlemen of the jury I intend to do just that.

Let’s now see what God’s word actually says about the first day—the one beginning with the words, “And God said.”

Day 1

God divides light from darkness

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And an evening and a morning were the first day.

Day 2

God then creates atmosphere

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And an evening and the morning were the second day.

Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown’s critical commentary on the Bible makes an interesting observation about the term firmament

"Firmament":

“a name given to the atmosphere, from its appearing to an observer, to be the vault of heaven, supporting the weight of the watery clouds. By the creation of an atmosphere, the lighter parts of the waters which overspread the earth's surface were drawn up and suspended in the visible heavens, while the larger and heavier mass remained below. The air was thus ‘in the midst of the waters,’ that is, separated them;”

In other words, this firmament (or heaven) is the air that separates rain clouds above and the bodies of water on the earth.

Day 3

God fashions the land
as well as the seas

9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas: and God saw that it was good.

During this day God also created vegetation
and even fashioned laws that would govern how
that vegetation would reproduce

11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, and herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after its kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after its kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after its kind: and God saw that it was good.

13 And an evening and a morning were the third day.

Day 4

God fashions the celestial universe

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And an evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Day 5

God creates a variety of living creatures

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creatures that have life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23 And an evening and a morning were the fifth day.

Day 6

God creates animals and the human family

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creature after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after their kind: and it was so.

25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creeps upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

God concludes the day by creating

mankind in His own image

The Creation of Man
by Michelangelo Circa 1511
Sistine Chapel

26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moves upon the earth

29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creeps upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And an evening and a morning were the sixth day.

Members of the jury, I want you to notice that in this chapter God describes in GREAT detail the creation of the material universe,

• its atmosphere,
• its land masses and seas,
• its sun, moon and stars,
• its vegetation,
• its sea creatures,
• its foul that roam the skies,
• its land roaming animals,
• and even mankind.

However, nothing whatsoever is said about the creation of the supernatural. There is no mention of Cherubim, Seraphim, or any other spirit beings. There is nothing said of 24 elders, four living creatures, or seven spirits. Not a word

In short—NO ANGELS

This seems striking that God would go to such great lengths when describing the heavens and the earth, and all that in them is—and omit what is arguably the most dramatic place in the entire universe. That is of course, unless the spirit world is not a part of that universe

With that said, what can we draw from this exhibit?

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I submit to you that the first chapter of Genesis describes the material realm as we know it. Not the spirit realm. It describes OUR current domain and how IT came into being. It doesn’t mention His domain and how it came to be. Furthermore, no matter how hard some may try to place the creation of God’s majestic home and the angelic citizens who reside there inside the seven days of creation week, they just aren’t there--and you certainly would think if they were a part of that creation they would be. This now brings us to the next exhibit.

Exhibit II

The Evidence of the Third Heaven

Ladies and gentlemen, those who hold to the idea that angels didn’t exist prior to the creation of the physical universe anchor their belief on the fourth commandment. So let’s go there.

Exodus 20:8-11

8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shall you labor, and do all your work:

10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it you shall do no work, you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor the stranger that is within your gates:

We now come to verse 11, which specifically addresses creation—and it is this verse that many cite when attempting to prove that everything that was ever created came into existence in the six days of Genesis. Notice what it says.

11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and ALL THAT IN THEM IS, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Those who believe that angels were a part of the creation described in Genesis 1 identify the word “heaven” in this verse as meaning ALL heavens that exist. Therefore, they render the commandment as meaning that in six days God made All Heavens and Everything that is in them—which would of course include the angels.

But is this TRUE?

Is that what this verse is saying?

To answer this question let’s go back to the creation recorded in Genesis 1

I offer this because at this point, it is important to understand that the Book of Genesis, which gives a very detailed account of creation, specifically identifies two heavens. The first heaven is our atmosphere which God created on the 2nd day: We read this before but it bears repeating.

Gen. 1:6-8

6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And an evening and the morning were the second day.

Ladies and gentlemen, this first heaven is mentioned numerous times in scripture including later in this chapter when God created birds. Here is precisely what it says.

Gen.1:20

20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that have life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

However, Genesis also describes a different heaven.

The Second Heaven

This second heaven is the celestial one. It contains the countless galaxies that decorate the night sky.

It was created on the fourth day. Once again, we read:

Gen. 1: 14-19

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

This is the same celestial heaven spoken of by King David

Psalm 8:3

3 “When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained;”

Ladies and gentlemen, the first chapter of Genesis and the twentieth chapter of Exodus only mention the first and 2nd heaven. But the Bible specifically identifies a third heaven. Paul spoke of this place. He did so when writing to the church at Corinth.

2 Corinthians 12:2

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knows ;) such a one caught up to the third heaven.

The Third Heaven

The “third heaven” Paul speaks of is actually described in great detail in the scriptures —and it is a remarkable place. Consider the apostle John’s depiction of it in the book of Revelation.

Revelation: 4:1-6

1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter.

2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

3 And he that sat was to look upon like jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

5 And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.

6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, does the heaven being described here remotely appear like the two heavens mentioned in Genesis 1 and alluded to in Exodus 20?

But there’s more.

The ancient prophet Ezekiel actually provides a very detailed description of the extraordinaly creatures that reside in God’s domain. He was presented with this image by God Himself. Try to imagine such beings.

Ezekiel 1: 1-28

Good News Translation

1 On the fifth day of the fourth month of the thirtieth year, I, Ezekiel the priest, son of Buzi, was living with the Jewish exiles by the Chebar River in Babylonia. The sky opened, and I saw a vision of God.

2 It was the fifth year since King Jehoiachin had been taken into exile.)

3 There in Babylonia beside the Chebar River, I heard the Lord speak to me, and I felt his power.

4 I looked up and saw a windstorm coming from the north. Lightning was flashing from a huge cloud, and the sky around it was glowing. Where the lightning was flashing, something shone like bronze.

Ezekiel then describes something

in the eye of the storm

5 At the center of the storm I saw what looked like four living creatures in human form,

6 but each of them had four faces and four wings.

7 Their legs were straight, and they had hoofs like those of a bull. They shone like polished bronze.

God’s prophet then goes into greater detail
including describing the actual formation
these creatures are in when they travel

8 In addition to their four faces and four wings, each had four human hands, one under each wing.

9 Two wings of each creature were spread out so that the creatures formed a square, with their wing tips touching. When they moved, they moved as a group without turning their bodies.

10 Each living creature had four different faces: a human face in front, a lion's face at the right, a bull's face at the left, and an eagle's face at the back.

11 Two wings of each creature were raised so that they touched the tips of the wings of the creatures next to it, and their other two wings were folded against their bodies.

12 Each creature faced all four directions, so the group could go wherever they wished, without having to turn.

13 Among the creatures there was something that looked like a blazing torch, constantly moving. The fire would blaze up and shoot out flashes of lightning.

14 The creatures themselves darted back and forth with the speed of lightning.

Ezekiel then describes a special
feature of these creatures

15 As I was looking at the four creatures I saw four wheels touching the ground, one beside each of them.

16 All four wheels were alike; each one shone like a precious stone, and each had another wheel intersecting it at right angles,

17 so that the wheels could move in any of the four directions.

18 The rims of the wheels were covered with eyes.

19 Whenever the creatures moved, the wheels moved with them, and if the creatures rose up from the earth, so did the wheels.

20 The creatures went wherever they wished, and the wheels did exactly what the creatures did, because the creatures controlled them.

21 So every time the creatures moved or stopped or rose in the air, the wheels did exactly the same.

At this point he described the actual
sound their wings made

22 Above the heads of the creatures there was something that looked like a dome made of dazzling crystal.

23 There under the dome stood the creatures, each stretching out two wings toward the ones next to it and covering its body with the other two wings.

24 I heard the noise their wings made in flight; it sounded like the roar of the sea, like the noise of a huge army, like the voice of Almighty God. When they stopped flying, they folded their wings,

25 but there was still a sound coming from above the dome over their heads.

Ezekiel concludes by describing the brilliance
of this spectacle and even its color.

26 Above the dome there was something that looked like a throne made of sapphire, and sitting on the throne was a figure that looked like a human being.

27 The figure seemed to be shining like bronze in the middle of a fire. It shone all over with a bright light

28 that had in it all the colors of the rainbow. This was the dazzling light which shows the presence of the Lord. When I saw this, I fell face downward on the ground. Then I heard a voice

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what is this place? It most assuredly is not the heavens described in Genesis 1 or even alluded to in Exodus 20. Nowhere does Genesis or Exodus mention the majestic creatures described in striking detail by God’s prophet.

• They don’t mention:
• domes,
• wings,
• perfectly coordinated flight configurations,
• wheels with eyes,
• an unimaginable spectrum of colors
• beings that travel at the speed of light
• and the powerful sounds they make in flight

Ladies and gentlemen, Genesis and Exodus never mentions such a place—and for good reason. This heaven is MUCH different. It is one that is preeminent over all other heavens--and God’s word actually declares this truth. To illustrate this point here is a little exercise.

The Heaven of Heavens

God’s word clearly identifies Jesus Christ as the King of kings and Lord of lords. The book of Revelation makes this reference on two occasions. Both involve His triumphant return to earth to subdue the nations. As you read these verses ask yourself what the terms “King of kings” and Lord of lords mean.

Revelation 17:14

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 19:15-16

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

It is clear that Christ is a King above all kings—that His authority is greater than all other rulers. As Lord of lords the same is true. Additionally, the Old Testament makes mention of the Most Holy Place or Holy of holies (Ex. 26:34). It is the inner sanctum of the Temple and is where the mercy seat sits which pictures God’s throne. Clearly, this is a very special place—one that is preeminent over other places in the tabernacle. With this said, is there a special heaven that is above all other heavens—a “heaven of heavens” as it were. The scriptures indicate that there is such a place. Furthermore, it is specifically identified as God’s domain and the residence of the holy angels. Notice how Nehemiah speaks of it.

Nehemiah 9:6

6 You, even You, are LORD alone; you have made heaven (or heavens, as described in Genesis 1), the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and you preserve them all; and the host of heaven [angels] worships you"

The fourth commandment does not mention the heaven of heavens. Genesis chapter 1 does not mention the heaven of heavens. Neither of these passages makes any reference to the seat of God’s government or the angelic beings that serve Him there. WHY?

Ladies and gentlemen of the Jury, I submit to you that the creation alluded to in the Sabbath command as well as that described in Genesis 1 pertains to the material universe. God and His angels reside in a different universe—One that is not governed by the physical laws of the heavens and the earth of which we are a part.

With this said, is there a way of knowing how old the “Heaven of Heavens” is? Unfortunately, the scriptures do not provide us with the answer. However, the Bible does contrast its age with that of the material universe we see all around us. And ladies and gentlemen, the third heaven is older.

This now brings us to Exhibit III

Exhibit III

The Evidence of a Different Time

Ladies and gentlemen, the Bible powerfully implies a distinction between the age of the third heaven (the Heaven of heavens) and the age of the heavens that are a part of our universe (the first and second heaven). Notice this distinction.

Psalm 68:32-33

32 Sing unto God, you kingdoms of the earth; O sing praises unto the Lord; Selah:

33 To him that rides upon the heavens of heavens, which were of old; lo, he doth send out his voice, and that a mighty voice

An Ancient Heaven

The words, “which were of old” in this verse indicates that the highest heaven is in some sense ancient. But ancient compared to what? Why would this be said of the third heaven if all three heavens were created at the same time during creation week? By the way, the expression “were of old” is never used when speaking about the first or second heaven. Only the “heaven of heavens” bears this description.

So what can be drawn from this?

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I submit to you that Psalm 68 is declaring that the third heaven is an ancient place, one that pre-dates the first and second heaven. It is a place in which God and the angels reside and is TOTALLY unique and distinct from the creation of the physical universe described in Genesis and alluded to in the fourth commandment.

This now brings us to our last Exhibit

Exhibit IV

The Evidence of Rejoicing Angels

When speaking to Job, God made a direct link between the creation of the material universe and the reaction of the spirit realm to that creation. He did so in a series of rhetorical questions proffered to this great patriarch. Notice the drama of His words.

Job 38:3-7

3 Gird up now your loins like a man; for I will demand of you, and answer you me.

4 Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have understanding.

5 Who has laid the measures thereof, if you know? Or who has stretched the line upon it?

6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof;

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

As you may recall, these verses were cited by the gentleman who took issue with my belief that the angelic realm is vastly older than the material universe. In fact he was fairly dismissive of my position on this.

Once again, here is what this critic said.

“Yes, I know the Sons of God jumped for joy when God laid the cornerstone of the Earth (Job 38:6-7). This only proves the Angels were here during the Creation Week. It does not prove they were here earlier, and certainly does not prove they are billions of years old.”

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, at this point I would like to offer for your consideration some questions I believe bear directly on this man’s point.

Here they are:

• What song, or songs, did the morning stars sing?
• And when did they learn these songs?
• And how were they able to sing them together—in unison?
• Was this just a reaction that was programmed in them?
• Was it simply a reflex?
• Or was it real?
• Was it something they had to learn?

Now when pondering these questions here is something to consider regarding the angelic realm:

• Angels have free will.
• They are cognitive beings with the power to reason as well as make decisions that have eternal consequences.
• hey are also emotional beings.
• And they have the power to express their emotions without coercion.

Now why would I bring this up? Well here is the point.

When God described the creation to Job, He revealed two important things about the angelic realm.

1) The angels were eye-witnesses to the creation and,

2) That creation had a enormous emotional impact on them.

At this point it is important to understand that there is nothing in this narrative that suggests their reaction was an automatic response—something hard-wired into them. What took place here was a real display of real feelings. This was pure unadulterated JOY! It was not manipulated. In other words God was not creating a personal cheering section for himself.

Those who place the creation of angels within Genesis 1 and Exodus 20 are suggesting that at the instant these majestic creatures were created, they could of their own free will have coordinated that response and express that joy. But that is NOT possible? Why?—because it would have no context—and without a context their reaction would have no more meaning than a laugh track on a TV sitcom. It would lack true sincerity and genuineness. It would just be a reflex—something built into them. And remember, it was God Himself who used the word “JOY”—and when doing so He wasn’t suggesting that the angels were simply reciting their lines at the appropriate moment. The point here is that the creation was 100% real and so was the angelic response.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I submit to you that true and unbridled joy cannot be programmed any more than character can be programmed. Real joy can only be activated by meaning and relevance. With that said, consider the following with respect to the emotional component of spirit beings.

First, the scriptures tell us that there is joy in heaven over one sinner who repents. But how is that possible? The answer is simple.